Legendary lyricist Sir Tim Rice talks about his brand-new touring show, Circle Of Words...

Circle Of Words is a behind-the-scenes look at the creation of a selection of songs featuring your lyrics. How did the show come about?
I’d done it quite a lot for charity concerts and also on the seaborne cruise ships, and it always goes down very well. You get some very good singers singing the songs, and then I tell a few stories about how they got written, things that went wrong. I like to think it’s quite entertaining.

Listening to the songs again, do you find yourself assessing them favourably?
I don’t think I’d do many of the successful songs differently. I mean, occasionally there’s the odd line, maybe; but no, I don’t think so. Certainly the songs I feature in the show are ones that basically I’m very happy with. I do, for example, sing myself on one occasion. I sing the original, very bad lyric, for the tune, I Don’t Know How To Love Him. It was completely different because that wonderful tune of Andrew’s was written first as a sort of pop song, but it never got anywhere, quite rightly. But the tune was too good to waste, so it went into Jesus Christ Superstar and then became very successful. 

What does a collaboration between lyricist and composer look like in terms of how it works? Does everything always get done in the same order?
No, not at all. It all depends on the composer, really. I mean, some composers like to write the tune first, some like to set words to music. Most composers prefer to do their tunes first, which in a way is quite good because I believe that music should flow quite freely, and lyrics need to be concise. So that’s the kind of general way it goes, but it is different from one performer to another. It also depends on what the song is for - if it’s part of a show or if it’s just a one-off song. All these things are relevant to how the thing gets written. 

Looking back at your career, if there was only one stage show or film that you could preserve for posterity as an example of your own particular talents, which would it be and why?
I’m not sure. I really don’t know. It might be Chess, actually. It’s very hard to tell because sometimes if I haven’t heard something for a long time, then I think “That’s alright, I quite like that.” But when you hear something too often, you might get a bit fed up with it. So I can’t really answer that, but I think Joseph will go on for a long time because of its endless appeal to children of different generations. I’m very lucky because quite a few shows have kept going in a very big way.

Can you recall the review of your work that’s made you happiest, and conversely, cut you deepest? 
Well, I think, as time goes on, one doesn’t pay much attention to reviews. Obviously, it’s nicer to get good reviews than bad ones. The first review we ever got for Joseph in a national newspaper was from the Sunday Times. That was very pleasing, as we never thought it would be reviewed. Basically, the Sunday Times’ music critic, Derek Jewell, was reviewing a school concert which he’d come along to because his son was in the choir, and we didn’t know that. He wrote a very enthusiastic review of Joseph when we hadn’t expected to get one at all. So that was probably the most exciting review we got. But we’ve had a lot of bad reviews over the years. Any bad or abusive review is a bit annoying at the time, but people do tend to forget about them. Perhaps not so much now, with all the internet and things. But no, I don’t think there was any particularly bad review where I thought, this has ruined everything. After a while, you get so many reviews they all balance each other out really. 

What does it require to be a good lyricist?
If you’re writing a musical, then a good story is absolutely key. That’s the most important thing. Some of the songs I’ve written that have been successful would never have been written if I’d just been given the tune and we tried to write a pop song. If you’ve got a good story, that can really inspire good lyrics. I would say, try not to do too many bad rhymes. With a show, if you’re starting out in theatre, I would say it’s easier to be funny than serious when you start out. You’ve got plenty of time for your angst later. I don’t think people want to hear too much about your torment or sadness. Once they know you, they might feel a bit more intrigued by ups and downs, but try and be funny to begin with.

How has the business of writing music for the theatre changed for you since you started out more than 50 years ago? 
It’s probably the same for me because I haven’t changed my method of working very much over the years. I think when we got going, we had a certain original style which in the end worked, once we stopped copying other people. I don’t think there is any sort of rigid method of working. I would say my method of working hasn’t changed. I would be incapable of changing it, I think. 

What do you think about the state of theatre in the UK in the 2020s?
Well, it seems to have got over most of the Covid scares and things. I haven’t seen an awful lot of stuff lately. I’ve probably actually been to more shows in New York because whenever I go to New York for work reasons, I try to see as many shows as possible. In London, you think, I’ll go to see that some time, but you never get around to it. 
The situation with shows today seems to me to be quite good. SIX has done very well. I’m trying to think of any other big musicals. Well, Hamilton was the last mega one, really. I think you only ever get a sensationally big musical every two or three years at the most, if not more like every five, but SIX and Hamilton are probably the two big ones at the moment. 

And finally, what are your new year hopes and resolutions?
Keep alive, really. No, not really! I just sort of potter on. I don’t think I’ve got any particular ambitions or resolutions for the new year. I mean, there are one or two places I’d like to visit, including Malvern and places like that. I think if I can just keep going, doing some more stuff; I’ve got one or two ideas floating around. I don’t feel a great urgency to come up with a new show every week. I’m more in the looking-back mode, I think.

Sir Tim Rice takes Circle Of Words to Wolverhampton Grand Theatre on Thursday 9 February and Malvern Theatres on Friday 10 February